Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
03/24/2009 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB86 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 86 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 60 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 86-PAID SICK LEAVE
CHAIR PASKVAN announced the consideration of SB 86.
1:37:46 PM
NICK MOE, aide to Senator Johnny Ellis, sponsor of SB 86,
reminded the committee that this bill requires paid sick leave
for private employees in the state of Alaska to accrue at a rate
of 1 hour for every 40 hours an employee works. It is a very
good minimum labor standard much like the federal standards for
minimum wage and mandatory paid overtime.
With paid sick leave, he said, an employee can take the time off
to get better if they do fall sick at the work place. This is
good for everyone, because if an employee comes to work sick,
they not only expose other employees to their illness, they also
threaten the consumers of that business, especially if it's a
food industry or child care business.
1:39:36 PM
SENATOR MEYER noted that overtime is a federal law, and asked if
there is a federal standard for sick leave.
MR. MOE answered no, but under the Clinton administration unpaid
leave was instituted for taking care of family members. It is
through federal action that a lot of local governments are able
to take this on.
SENATOR MEYER asked if it was his intent to allow people to cash
in sick leave.
MR. MOE answered no.
SENATOR MEYER asked if the larger employers already have paid
sick leave.
MR. MOE answered yes, but the sponsor's intent is to fill the
gap between those who do and those who don't.
1:42:38 PM
SENATOR MEYER said he is looking at businesses with over 15
employees and large employers, and thought maybe they were
getting into labor/management relations and the bargaining
process. Some may get higher wages for not having paid sick
leave and ultimately extra costs get passed on to the consumer.
1:43:09 PM
SENATOR BUNDE joined the committee.
SENATOR MEYER said he didn't support the government mandating
how a business should be run. Most employers are smart enough to
know that if someone comes to work sick, it would adversely
impact their business. He liked the idea of not calling it paid
sick leave, but calling it a personal day, because a mother or
father may not be sick, but they might have a sick child at home
they need to spend time with.
MR. MOE said studies have shown that businesses actually benefit
from paid sick leave for a number of reasons. Productivity is
increased by not having sick workers coming in and trying to
work and getting other employees sick as well. On the other
hand, some employees feel like they either have to come to work
sick or stay home and risk losing their job. But, there is a
cost to the business if that employee is fired and a new person
needs to be trained.
Testimony from Dr. Heidi Hartman, Institute of Women's Policy
Research, before the Senate Committee on Health, Education and
Labor, indicated that if workers were provided just seven paid
sick days per year, our national economy would experience a net
savings of over $8.1 million. Forbes Magazine had an article
that touched on the very large number of dollars that businesses
could save by implementing these programs.
SENATOR MEYER said he has a personal bias against the government
mandating how to operate with employee/employer relations where
there are always gives and takes.
1:47:35 PM
SENATOR DAVIS said the state doesn't have sick leave, but it has
combined all leaves into one account called personal leave. If
you don't use it, it can be cashed out. She asked why they are
interested in sick leave as opposed to personal.
MR. MOE answered that current language requires an employee or
his family to be sick in order to take the paid leave. It also
allows victims of domestic violence to take safe days. This bill
specifically deals with the sick days as opposed to personal
days, because they are more quantifiable. An employer can grant
these personal days that will go towards the sick day
requirement, but if an employee is sick and needs to leave work
without the permission of his employer, he must be sick in order
to qualify.
1:48:46 PM
SENATOR THOMAS joined the committee.
SENATOR DAVIS asked if a person can stay home to take care of a
sick child under this bill.
MR. MOE answered yes; the bill covers immediate family members
as well as personal health.
SENATOR THOMAS said one concern he has is the use of the term
"sick". It sounds good until trying to determine the degree of
sickness a person needs to be in order to qualify; invariably
people are seen operating in a capacity that isn't consistent
with them being sick, and everyone wants to use whatever leave
is available.
1:52:41 PM
MR. MOE said the hope is to provide the bare minimum standard
for sick leave, and the hope is also that the system doesn't get
abused.
SENATOR THOMAS asked if this leave can be rolled forward.
MR. MOE answered yes; it can be carried over year to year, but
it can't be cashed out.
1:54:28 PM
PAT LUBY, Advocacy Director, AARP, supported SB 86. He said half
of his members are in the work force. The economy requires some
older workers to stay in the work force longer and others are
returning to it. The older workers, especially those who return
to the work force on a part time basis to make ends meet,
receive lower pay without many benefits, if any. At the same
time, these older workers are more likely to have an illness and
need to take time off.
1:55:53 PM
GABE ACEVES, Executive Director, Alaska Public Interest Research
Group (AKPIRG), supported SB 86. He said he had worked with the
sponsor and other interested groups in the state and across the
nation towards promoting sick day leave policies. He said about
122,000 full-time workers in Alaska do not receive sick pay, and
they are usually in the lower paying jobs. They handle our food
every day as restaurant workers, hotel employees and retail
personnel. They work in daycare and senior centers, but if they
get sick, they are forced to choose between taking a day off and
the possibility of being reprimanded or losing their job if they
decide not to show up for work. The loss of a job represents
losing a place to live and not being able to make ends meet. He
was sensitive to small business owners' needs and agreed that
businesses will actually end up saving money this way by keeping
workers and not having to train new ones. This concept also
protects the public's health.
1:59:20 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN asked if he worried that employers may use this to
negotiate away paid vacation days.
MR. ACEVES answered that AKPIRG has asked that the bill's
language establish a very minimum standard to earn this paid
leave. There is a 90-day waiting period, for instance, from the
time you are hired, and on top of that you only earn one hour of
leave for every 40 hours of work. So, a full time employee is
looking at about 800 hours of work before getting a day of sick
leave. The fact that employees have to earn this leave will
probably stop them from abusing it.
CHAIR PASKVAN clarified that his question was focused more on
employers who already provide a month of paid leave saying they
can use one week out of that for sick leave.
MR. ACEVES responded if an employer already provides his
employees with a paid leave policy, this bill won't affect them.
MR. MOE said that was his understanding as well.
2:01:52 PM
SENATOR BUNDE commented that it's his experience, especially in
the fast food industry, that they are so desperate for employees
that they seldom fire anyone.
SENATOR THOMAS said he couldn't find anything in the bill that
says this seven days would be offset by some other form of leave
that may exist.
MR. ACEVES said language on page 2, line 22, says an employer is
not subject to this section if the employer already had a plan
in place that accrues at this rate or greater.
2:04:28 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN seeing no questions or comments, closed public
testimony.
SENATOR MEYER remarked that the fishing industry brings up a
whole lot of people who are not residents to work in the summer,
and asked if that employer has to give them sick leave.
MR. MOE pointed out the 90-day requirement before sick leave
starts to accrue; so they wouldn't be able to accrue much before
the end of the season. If they are not Alaskan residents, they
wouldn't qualify either under the current language.
SENATOR BUNDE noted there are lots of definitions of residents.
How is it defined in this legislation?
MR. MOE directed him to page 2, line 21, that says the person
has to live in the state.
SENATOR BUNDE said military people often take other jobs, and
they aren't residents, for instance.
2:07:25 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN observed that the bill applies to employers, not
employees.
MR. MOE said he thought the language meant "living or staying
within Alaska while you are working."
2:08:10 PM
AL TAMAGNI, Sr., representing himself and as a member of the
NFIB, said he owns Pension Services International in Anchorage.
He has some serious questions and concerns about SB 86. Some of
the facts he has heard today can't be substantiated, he said -
like the fact that someone said Alaska has 122,000 full time
workers who don't get sick leave. In administering pensions he
has found the term "sick leave" is not used in most cases and
"personal leave" is, and that can be taken as sick and/or
vacation leave. It's up to the individual. However, the employer
can budget accordingly.
Another downside to this bill, Mr. Tamagni said, is that it
allows sick leave to be carried over from year to year, and the
question is how does an employer budget for that every year.
Also a lot of employers already provide 2-3 weeks of personal
leave, which wouldn't qualify as sick leave under this bill. So
the employers will probably change their policy by reducing the
personal leave. This would create more of a problem than it
would help, and he hasn't seen much evidence that this is even a
big problem in Alaska.
MR. TAMAGNI also stated that small employers in Alaska should
not be painted as utilizing their people in a very inhumane way;
most employers here treat their people pretty well, because they
spend a lot of money in training them in the first place.
Another problem is how to address sick leave for businesses with
a probation period of over 120 days if the person doesn't keep
his job and the employer owes him sick leave. He thought the
Department of Labor should do a study to find out if there is
really a problem in Alaska with using personal for both.
2:14:39 PM
STEPHANIE STERN, Working Families Policy Analyst, National
Partnership for Women and Families, supported SB 86. She said
she was available to answer questions and recapped that her
office is a non-partisan, non-profit advocacy group in
Washington, D.C., that works to pass policies to help people
realize dual responsibility of work and family. She had outlined
in previous testimony the congressional movement and action in
15 states this year to meet the minimum labor standard of paid
sick days.
2:16:31 PM
SENATOR THOMAS asked if she had statistics that show how many
employers with 15 or more employees have no form of leave.
MS. STERN replied that she didn't have a break down of employer
by employer size; but they know that across the board 48 percent
of the employees in the private sector don't have any paid sick
days.
SENATOR THOMAS said he wanted to know how many had no paid leave
at all.
MS. STERN said she could get those statistics for him, but it's
usually the lower paid employees.
2:18:26 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN closed public comment again.
GRAY MITCHELL, Director, Division Labor Standards and Safety,
Department of Labor and Workforce Development (DOLWD), was
available to answer questions on SB 86.
SENATOR MEYER asked him where those low-paid employees who don't
have paid sick leave work.
MR. MITCHELL replied that he suspected service industry jobs and
entry level and retail workers.
SENATOR MEYER asked if a lot of these employees would be in the
fishing industry.
MR. MITCHELL replied that seafood processing employers,
especially the small ones, typically don't have sick or annual
leave as part of their benefit package.
SENATOR MEYER said this bill wouldn't help them at all, because
a lot of these people are not Alaskan residents, and that
concerns him.
MR. MITCHELL said language on page 2, line 21, defined those
employers that are not subject to the paid leave requirement. So
he didn't understand the issue of whether or not a resident
would be provided the benefit of paid sick leave, because this
section seems to be defining the exception.
SENATOR MEYER said perhaps he was reading it wrong, but line 14
says "employers shall provide at least 1 hour of paid sick leave
for every 40 hours work to each employee who resides in the
state."
MR. MITCHELL said he thought that language was trying to limit
this law to Alaskan employees, not ones who are out of state.
One question he had is how the bill defines someone who resides
in Alaska, and he suggested that Title 1 defines a state
resident as someone who has been in the state for 30 or so days
with the intent to remain - a fairly short period of time.
2:23:38 PM
SENATOR MEYER said that seafood processors probably have the
highest number of non-state employees than any other industry,
and he didn't want to make it more attractive for employers to
hire non-Alaskans.
SENATOR BUNDE remarked that slime line jobs last less than 90
days; so those people wouldn't qualify for this bill. But if he
were a small employer not offering sick leave at this point
because he can't afford it, would anything in state law keep him
from firing someone every 90 days and then rehiring him or a new
person. Wien Airlines did this in the past with employees who
worked more than 90 days and therefore qualified to be part of
the union.
MR. MITCHELL replied that there wasn't a provision like that in
the bill.
CHAIR PASKVAN said the way he understands the 90 days is that an
employer can restrict when the hours may be cashed in, but not
that the hours haven't accrued.
2:26:27 PM
MR. MITCHELL replied that sick leave legally doesn't have a cash
value unless an employer specifies that it does. Sick leave is
designed to give an employee time to be sick.
CHAIR PASKVAN said if an employee worked for 75 days, he would
have accrued so many hours of sick leave.
MR. MITCHELL replied that was correct; and after 90 days the
bill said the employee can start to use that sick leave.
CHAIR PASKVAN said he didn't see anything about forfeiture in
the bill. The more important issue is what a "resident of the
state" means. He wondered if an employee who comes up here for
60 days can accrue sick leave irrespective of when he may return
to some other jurisdiction.
SENATOR THOMAS suggested on page 2, lines 16 and 22, changing
"resides" to "works in the state".
CHAIR PASKVAN reiterated his question - "What happens to accrued
time?"
SENATOR BUNDE remarked if you were going to quit at 60 days and
you have accrued 10 hours, you had better be sick for 10 hours
to get the benefit.
CHAIR PASKVAN asked if the employer has an obligation to make a
check out for accrued wages under this statute.
MR. MITCHELL replied no; unless the employer puts it in the
contract.
2:32:33 PM
SENATOR MEYER said a lot of seasonal employees will come back
the next summer; but once they terminate, he asked if their sick
time accrues next year.
MR. MITCHELL replied that would depend; some fish processors
continue providing benefits through to the next season.
2:34:20 PM
SENATOR BUNDE moved to adopt Amendment 1.
26-LS0230\R.3
Wayne
AMENDMENT 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE BY SENATOR BUNDE
Page 1, line 1:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
Page 2, line 1:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
Page 2, line 14:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
Page 2, line 15:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
Page 2, line 18:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
Page 2, line 20:
Delete "may carry over unused paid sick leave"
Insert "may not carry over unused paid personal
leave"
Page 2, line 24, following "worked;":
Insert "and"
Page 2, line 25:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following paragraph accordingly.
Page 2, line 30, through page 3, line 6:
Delete all material.
Reletter the following subsections accordingly.
Page 3, lines 25 - 31:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.
Page 4, line 5:
Delete "sick"
Insert "personal"
SENATOR DAVIS objected.
SENATOR BUNDE explained that he believes sick leave encourages
people to become creative in how they define being sick.
Changing "sick" to "personal" reflects reality. It would also
clarify language on page 2, line 20, by inserting "may not carry
over unused paid personal leave."
2:37:04 PM
SENATOR DAVIS said she didn't have a problem with using
"personal" leave, but the sponsor prefers using "sick" leave.
However, there is more to the amendment that basically guts the
bill.
2:37:40 PM
MR. MOE commented that the sponsor didn't have a problem with
changing the title from "sick" to "personal" leave, but he
agreed that page 2 of the amendment deleted a large portion of
the bill - specifically page 2, line 10 of the amendment deletes
all of the language on page 2, line 30 through page 3, line 6,
which describe very specifically what the paid leave can be used
for - to take care of a family member or for domestic violence
or sexual assault. The goal of paid sick leave is a health
issue. The term "personal leave" is pretty broad. The sponsor
would prefer to keep "paid sick leave" language.
SENATOR BUNDE said he has no intention of gutting the bill, but
if someone has personal leave, he doesn't have to tell the
employer he needs a safe day, for instance. This is leaving the
reason up to the person to decide. It demeans a worker and
invades privacy to have to explain why.
SENATOR MEYER agreed. Personal leave gives an employee more
flexibility to use a day to take his dog to the vet if the dog
is sick, for instance.
2:42:10 PM
SENATOR DAVIS said the intent of the bill is to help people in
certain situations who need time off, not to give people more
days for vacation.
SENATOR BUNDE said people who have "sick leave" have more
undefined pain.
2:45:43 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN said this act would not apply to an employer who
would already have a policy in place.
2:46:52 PM
SENATOR BUNDE responded that this is putting the small employers
who don't have sick leave into a different category than someone
else who provides personal or annual leave already. The much
larger group already provides personal leave; so why would
lawmakers discriminate against mostly low-wage earners by making
them qualify under something called sick leave. Calling it
"personal leave" would allow them to take the time off without
having to explain anything.
2:49:08 PM
SENATOR DAVIS reiterated that the amendment does much more than
change "sick" to "personal"; and the sponsor wants "sick" in the
bill.
2:51:33 PM
CHAIR PASKVAN commented that domestic situations where a person
was arrested or formally charged would be a matter of public
record already. So their privacy wouldn't be invaded further. He
pointed out that this applies only to employers who do not have
any formal leave or personal time that exceeds 6.5 days per year
for full time work.
SENATOR BUNDE reiterated that he didn't understand why they
would say people have more rights who work for a company that is
able to give personal leave different than those who work for a
company that doesn't have personal leave - and they will only
get sick leave. So, they get a lesser benefit than the people
who work for a company that provides personal leave.
CHAIR PASKVAN responded that essentially it is a minimum labor
standard issue.
2:54:08 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Meyer and Bunde voted yea;
Senators Davis, Thomas and Paskvan voted nay; therefore,
Amendment 1 failed.
2:54:18 PM
SENATOR MEYER said minimum wage and mandatory overtime laws are
already in place; but they are both federal laws, and he
believed it was better to keep it at the federal level. He moved
to report SB 86 from committee with individual recommendations
and attached fiscal note(s).
SENATOR BUNDE objected, and said this fails miserably on the
federal level.
SENATOR DAVIS said she thought some employers would be
pleasantly surprised to have this on the books.
SENATOR MEYER said he hoped the Finance Committee would look at
why it costs so much to implement.
CHAIR PASKVAN remarked that SB 86 applies only to employers of
at least 15 workers; additionally it only applies to employers
who do not have a leave plan of some sort for more than 6.5
hours.
2:59:27 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Senators Davis, Meyer, Thomas and
Paskvan voted yea; Senator Bunde voted nay; therefore, SB 86
moved from committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 14 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SL&C 3/10/2009 1:30:00 PM SL&C 3/24/2009 1:30:00 PM |
SB 14 |
| SB 60 Bill Packet.pdf |
SL&C 3/24/2009 1:30:00 PM SL&C 3/31/2009 1:00:00 PM SL&C 4/16/2009 1:00:00 PM |
SB 60 |
| SB 86 Bill Packet.pdf |
SL&C 3/10/2009 1:30:00 PM SL&C 3/24/2009 1:30:00 PM |
SB 86 |
| SB 86 Back-Up Steffany Stern Testimony.pdf |
SL&C 3/10/2009 1:30:00 PM SL&C 3/24/2009 1:30:00 PM |
SB 86 |
| SB 86 amendment.pdf |
SL&C 3/24/2009 1:30:00 PM |
SB 86 |